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 For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook

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juicy
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PostSubject: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:42 pm

I've been talking about this in recent days with some of the guys who I'm hoping will be taking over running games around these parts on behalf of the community. From my experience of when I was doing this, I'd like to start by sharing a rulebook that we used to play by for the duration of the ASG regular game days. Now, if we even use a set of rules to play by, that's up to you - Panther Airsoft rules are much simpler in that you're safe or you're not and that's that and they don't seem to have many problems with rules over there. Mind you, some people can be idiots unless given strict guidelines on what they can and can't do - e.g. rules about how to keep their goggles on their faces in the first place.

I have a copy of the rulebook that I wrote on my own time for ASG game days when we first started running them at Tsawwassen. This will be posted in a post below.

I do have some changes to suggest however, namely those that will standardize our rules to the rest of Canada (let's face it, we're playing under rules that were developed many years ago in order to make things more newbie-friendly):


  • 420 FPS limit, chrono'ed on 0.20g with hop off.
  • At this FPS limit full auto allowed. No full auto inside "buildings" (how do you define buildings?). Just don't be a dick about hosing people down and close range, and people won't hate on you.
  • No "DMR" FPS limit with semi only. No one else in Canada uses this as far as I'm aware - even in the USA this is an uncommon rule in only some of the fields.
  • No MED - we're all grown ups and should be able to handle a little pain, that's how most guys in AB play (the same guys that we'll usually face off against in games like Iceback). Blind fire rules don't apply since there is no concern for MED violations. Once again, just don't be a dick.
  • Note that the rule about paintball goggles as the required eye protection was written as there is room for misunderstandings on the proper ballistic ratings on ACM repro/clone goggles. Officially (last I checked), all paintball fields are fine with airsoft players wearing full seal ballistic rated goggles - though for insurance purposes, these goggles must be rated properly.
  • Minimum age of players was not written by my choice. This is debatable in terms of who you guys want to play with as a community. Myself, I have an opinion that I find that the vast majority of kids just don't do too well on the field.


As Omega Ops is a community effort - are there any other suggestions? In the end, this obviously is not my decision, as I do believe that the rules that we play by should be a set of rules on which we as a community can all agree upon.

Most of the concepts were based on the old (and now defunct) Op-For Club rulebook (which in itself had likely come from somewhere else), just reworded for easier reading and simplified a bunch. I was a part of decision making process behind some of the additions a couple of years ago, and I myself find some of those rules to be rather silly... but the Admins made decisions by votes, on behalf of the club.

These rules below were written for usage at Tsawwassen and Ambush, though they of course came from old rules used by Op-For that used to play at Panther - all of which are paintball fields and have their own "safe zone" safety rules that everyone who plays anything there has to follow.

I later (briefly) edited it for use by Bellator Entertainment - I did not and do not represent BE in any way. Keep in mind that BE was a business and not a club, hence why the wording at the end may seem rather harsh - the rules were rules and that was that. If you screwed up you were kicked out, no refund. Business is very different than a club - I believe that people fail to realize this, but please do keep this in mind.

Other than that, the following is a copy of the rulebook - exactly as it was once up there: (well, other than being edited to correct formatting issues as they appear on this board)


Last edited by juicy on Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:42 pm

Game Day Rules


There is zero tolerance for screw-ups at Bellator Entertainment (BE) events.


Age limit
13 years old and up. You must be 16 to sign a waiver (or your parent/guardian may sign for you).

Dates and times
These will be posted in the forum section titled Bellator Entertainment Events. You are invited to sign up for any event listed in the sub-forums of this section.

Costs
Fees will be due to whatever field you are playing on - a representative of BE may collect them from you on behalf of the field.

Safe zone

The parking lot/staging area and paths into the field(s) of play are considered the "safe zone."

These rules always apply in the safe zone.

When you enter the safe zone, you must have:
- paintball-approved barrel condom on your barrel
- put your gun on "SAFE"
- remove any magazines from your gun(s)
- clear your chamber (on AEG's, you accomplish this by firing your gun in semi in a safe direction with your magazine out)

Approved eye protection

Paintball goggles must be worn at all times on the field.

Only the goggle portion is required, meaning you can remove the mask or visor if you so desire.

The lenses must be rated for protection against paintball (no ski goggles, glasses, etc).

When you enter the field, your goggles must remain sealed against your face at any and all times.

If your goggles require cleaning or defogging, you must exit the field and enter the safe zone before doing so.

Note: there is no compromise on eye protection, if you are caught wearing something else, you will be sent home.

Muzzle velocities

FULL-AUTO AEG:
0-400 FPS = you may fire in full-auto when you are further than 40 ft away from your target(s) & within 40 ft you must use semi-auto to engage your target(s).
DESIGNATED MARKSMAN RIFLE (DMR):
400-450 FPS = you may fire in semi-auto ONLY when further than 60 ft away from your target(s) & you must carry a secondary with which you can engage target(s) within the 60 ft MED.
BOLT-ACTION SNIPER RIFLES:
450-500 FPS = you may only fire a bolt-action rifle when you are further than 100 ft away from your target(s) & you must carry a secondary with which you can engage target(s) within the 100 ft MED.

INDOOR/CQB:
0-330 FPS = semi-only with no MED.

Note: all muzzle velocities are calculated on a 0.20g BB in order to properly calculate safe muzzle kinetic energies.

Note: MED = "Minimum Engagement Distance" = the minimum distance you must be away from your target to fire at your target. These MED rules are set up for your safety.

Firing etiquette

Aim for centre of mass (chest, stomach, back) or legs as these parts of the body hurt less.

Aim down your sights when you are firing. Blind fire will not be tolerated as this can easily cause an unintended MED violation.

Be conscious that you may not be able to hear your target call "HIT" - do not shoot your target too much.

If your target is not calling "HIT," be aware that foliage or wind can greatly affect the path of the BB's that you're shooting. If your target is not calling "HIT," shoot more.

Knife kills and mercies

Rubber training knives can be used to silently kill opponents. This is accomplished by tapping your opponent with a rubber knife - no slashing or stabbing.

If you are killed by someone with a rubber knife, do not call out "HIT," but rather continue to (silently) indicate that you are now dead (e.g. kill rag, raise gun above head, put up 2 hands).

Mercy rule - if you approach a player on another team from behind, you can call "MERCY" within 10 ft, he cannot contest the mercy and this counts as an automatic kill. If you approach a player from side, though the player can attempt to contest and kill you first, though this is up to player.

The mercy rule exists to allow players the option of not shooting someone at close range as this can be very painful for the other person.

Note that you can only mercy one person at a time.

MED rules still apply to challenging/defending a mercy.

Dead player etiquette

Call your hits - this is a game of honour and the game breaks down quickly if you do not call your hits.

If and when you are hit, please make it clear that you are hit - yell "HIT," use a kill rag, raise your gun above your head, and/or put both hands up.

If your gun is clearly hit and you are not, this counts as a "gun hit." At this point in time, call out "GUN HIT" and the hit gun is now disabled. You may continue to play with an alternate weapon, including knives.

When you are dead, please do not fire your gun, especially if there is an active game still ongoing.

When you are dead, do not talk or point at where live players are - dead men tell no tales.

Gun safe

If you hear the words "GUN SAFE," stop playing where you are, put your gun on "safe," remove your magazine, and await further instructions from the game organizers.

A "gun safe" indicates that there is a problem on the field - someone is seriously injured or someone is on the field without goggles.

If you witness someone seriously injured, someone's goggles have fallen off, or someone is walking onto the field without goggles (and etc.), you should call out the words "GUN SAFE" yourself.

Please note that this is a very serious rule and it must be respected in case of emergency.

Game organizers

At Bellator Entertainment events, the representatives of BE will be in charge.

You can approach them with any concerns or suggestions you may have.

You must listen to the game organizers during any briefings.

The representatives of Bellator Entertainment are not responsible for any mishaps.

If you break a rule, you will be sent home.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:55 pm

I think what would be more suitable is have certification for people who want to snipe maybe prove to an admin that you can be trusted with no fps limit and no med I know we are all grown ups but we have all came across at least 1 person on the field who wasn't following the rules and I really like my teeth where they are lol
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:58 pm

I dont think raising the fps limits on full auto and having no limit on dmrs while also getting rid of meds is a good idea. I have no issue with the pain but after airsoft i gotta go to work and dont enjoy talking to customers with the bumps I usually have on my forehead with the current limits let alone raising them.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:17 pm

I like the idea of no med's and no limit to DMR's as long as its doesnt go overboard like over 550-600 fps. But I havent seen any chrono for the past i dont know how many months and seem fairly good for the most part on the veteran players to respect somewhat of an MED. I know I dont go shooting someone 10-20 feet away with my DMR out of respect and the fact that switching to my side arm is awesome. But I like the fact that you can actually feel something instead of wondering whether you got shot or not!! As for getting shot in the face and going to work with bruises, I also have to deal with clients and a good first impression is always good but thats also why I wear a face shield and helmet that covers most of my head( I get the odd BB that will find its way in there but very rare)
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Tue Mar 04, 2014 10:49 pm

For my two cents (lol), I've mentioned in the past that the MED 'rule' is/can be annoying, when you're not the one down range. Generally speaking, I'm fine with getting into it at close ranges, if that's the way things go. Having said that, I wear mouth protection to save my chicklets. Some don't, so I could see their hesitation at no MED/Full auto suggestions. Mind you, close or far, the possibility of that exists.

I do think there should be a semi-auto rule in place, within a set MED. Whether it is a rule or not, I would never full-auto (not like I have a choice, seeing as my gun stays in semi, regardless) someone inside of 40 feet, and I would transition to a pistol inside of 10-20. I do this out of respect for the other player, not due to a rule, per se. But my years in paintball have shown me that if you let people go at full auto, sans MEDs, they'll do it. Now, granted, the level of maturity I've seen in Airsoft is quite a bit higher, on the whole, but still, that possibility exists. I suppose it depends on the culture that is developed. If the game were more of a semi-auto style game, it wouldn't matter. People would limit their rate of fire as a matter of course. I just worry that it would be abused, and we would see incidents of flaring tempers increase.

As to the matter of FPS rules, I really have no idea how the original distinctions were made, locally. High-end bolt and gas guns firing at certain velocities will necessitate higher weights of BBs. The combination of the two present a clear potential for injury. SOME limit is needed, or certification, as Krawch suggested. I shudder to think at some relatively inexperienced player, or, worse, some experienced 'dick' running about with a high-FPS set-up, intentionally doing harm. But below that limit, is there really much difference between 420 and 400? Many fields else where allow a +/- of 15 to 20 FPS, and that can often be gained or lost by a simple change of the bucking. I am opposed to anything above 500 FPS, due to legal considerations. Frankly, someone gets 'caught' with an airsoft rifle running above that magick number, it could prove unfortunate for the rest of us.

It's a hard conversation to have. I mean, if we could just rely on people 'not being a dick,' we wouldn't have to worry too much. Unfortunately, it's a little hard to police being a dick. But we've had incidents out there when the player level was more experienced, and things have been fine. Apologies were exchanged, and the day continued.


On the matter of Blind Fire, I hate it. No, wait. Scratch that. I loathe it. It is lame. It is uncool. It is cowardly. It most often results in wasted shots, and friendlies being struck. Generally speaking, newbs do this. I think it is a behaviour we need to train them out of. Like, with bamboo.

Biggest thing, centre of mass. Juicy said, it should be fairly simple to follow. Don't blast the guy in the head. End of story. Most of the injuries are face or head shots. It's obviously going to happen with 'bunny hops' or a gust of wind, or what have you. No need to be deliberate about it. If the rule of thumb is centre of mass, most of the rest of the conversation starts to take care of itself.

These are, of course, my opinions, and not edicts or policy. Juicy's got the right of this, let's have the community raise their voice.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Wed Mar 05, 2014 12:19 am

Jukebox wrote:
[...]
These are, of course, my opinions, and not edicts or policy. Juicy's got the right of this, let's have the community raise their voice.

This.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Wed Mar 05, 2014 7:43 am

I haven't played with you guys that often so take it or leave it on my suggestions, but I figured I'd weigh in (I may come out this Sunday for my last game day on Panther before the new rules)

- I like the idea of going to 420 fps and dropping the DMR 450 as it does match more of Canada (even though I have a gun that shoots 450 on the dot I'd prefer not to downgrade).
- I don't think blind fire should be allowed, no one wants to be full auto'd in the face or the balls and blind fire leaves this out there as a possibility.
- I think the 500 fps limit for bolt action should stay (legal reasons, and the possible jerk factor)
- Panther hasn't had any major issues with the no MED rules but many guys have walked away with "battle scars", people have to go to work the next day, while I'm sure we don't have any male models playing airsoft it could suck to be in sales or something and have to explain why you're missing a tooth to every client.  The 40ft and under no full auto limits the possibility of anything like this happening if you assume people have some control over themselves.
- I agree with Sights that the transition to pistol can be important (and fun), to add to this, some milsims may have MEDs that require this transition, if there isn't a rule to force the move to a pistol at short range many players may never practice this transition and it could be a disadvantage at certain milsims.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:10 am

After reading all of this, here's my opinion on some of the points,
-raising FPS limit to 420, makes no difference to me since airsoft guns tended to fluctuate in FPS +/- 10 fps.
- I don't think blind firing is safe.
- I think MEDs should only be applied to anything shooing over 450fps. Since it would not be fun to be shot at with a 500 fps up close. other then that I'm fine with no MED under 450fps. As long as your not being a Dick.

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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:45 am

The following are my opinions and some background information from my viewpoint on the topics repeatedly brought up about the suggestions for updating the rules we play by:

Bolt gun FPS limits is not something on my proposed list of changes, and as such MED for bolt guns would remain. I don't run a bolt gun myself so I have no idea about this kind of stuff, nor have I ever had an issue with the current rules in this regard being on the other end of someone's BASR. I find that most players who upgrade their bolt guns to the 500 FPS limit are generally more experienced players as the investment required to get a bolt gun running reliably and consistently enough to actually be able to hit anything requires practice with said bolt gun.

I was thinking in terms of rules that Iceback and UCSG (and EAR - that's where their rules come from) plays by - there are no full auto MED in which you must shoot semi. They do have rules in regards to limiting full auto firing within buildings, though I can't recall the exact details off the top of my head. Speaking of which, for games such as Iceback, there is no 450 FPS limit for AEG's limited to semi-auto only - its 420 FPS or less for AEG's and GBBR's and that's that. As to usage of sidearms at close range - my understanding from Iceback's rules were that if you're running a MG or bolt gun, you had to switch to a lower FPS weapon when shooting inside the buildings, as this is where close range engagements are most likely. This is my thinking on the matter.

Blind fire, yeah - got it. How does one define "aiming" though? I've seen and heard many different interpretations on this rule, depending on where you go and who you play with/against. Rules for Iceback last year basically said that you couldn't stick your muzzle through a tiny hole if you couldn't see your sights, and something else that I just can't recall off the top of my head at the moment - something along the lines of being able to have clear line of sight to your target. I don't think hip fire itself was a topic addressed in those rules. Does hip fire count as blind fire? What about running a laser or light to point your muzzle in the correct direction? What about aiming down the side of your barrel and not through your sights? This is a topic I find is commonly not addressed, rather people are just told "no blind fire" in the rules and given a warning for something they may have not fully understood in the first place. Or, are people just being stupid?

Yes, 400 FPS +/- 15 FPS was a limit (not a goal) integrated into Op-For rulebook and is apparently still accepted by LMAG. This was Airmax's implementation of the universal FPS rule that he went out and shook hands on with all the local clubs at the time - great rule by the way, as this was designed to allow for FPS fluctuations, notably those that happen as a fresh spring "settles" into an AEG in the weeks after being installed. Most fields that I'm aware of outside the Lower Mainland that feature the same engagement distances as those found at Panther utilize a similar 420 FPS rule - feel free to correct me if I'm wrong on this.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Thu Mar 06, 2014 12:31 pm

I would define blind fire as firing without knowing where your bb is going, or only exposing the gun and not yourself.

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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Thu Mar 06, 2014 3:13 pm

Blind firing: a technique whereby the shooter abandons aiming down the sights of a firearm in favor of concealment or a hastily retreat. Sights in this context would include any device such as scopes, etc allowing visual alignment with the line of travel of the fired projectile. Using a camera assisted aiming device for around corner concealment in this context is not considered blind firing. Just a technical explanation and a possible loop hole for regulations using a cell phone camera, wifi go pro etc.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:06 pm

Minor trivial thought here regarding age. My preference is to have a higher minimum age limit (at LEAST 16+) but that's up to the club in question and for me to suck-it-up so to speak. Not a huge issue.

My question though is regarding that ugly word "Liability". Do I rad this right or is the following just a typo:

"You must be 16 to sign a waiver (or your parent/guardian may sign for you)."

As I understood, having anyone under the age of 18 sign a waiver was pointless from a legal standpoint?  Have I got that wrong?  Any club, school activity, youth group etc that I've been involved with requires anyone under the age of 18 to have a parent or guardian sign to make it legal. (I have kids so I end up signing these all the time)

This is for the club/organizers' protection and is not something to take lightly.  If you are going to allow younger types, I'd hate to see some minor incident turn into a lawsuit which would most likely end the club's existance and create unecessary scrutiny for the rest of the airsoft community in the Lower Mainland.

I know, depressing black cloud, devil's advocate kind of stuff but it's important to cross the "T's" first  and foremost.  :O)
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:09 pm

Actually, this is pretty legitimate. Mind you, waivers don't count for much to begin with. Still, I have a problem with young kids playing, sans parents. I always have. It's something I would also suggest we stick to. Number of different reasons for, but unless they have a parent present, it isn't a good idea.

Good point, Shadow.

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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Thu Mar 06, 2014 5:25 pm

Yep, I agree... and I believe most (maybe not all) in-house field rules are pretty specific about having a parent or guardian play as well, not just sign the waiver and leave.

I also agree that a waiver may not prevent some sort of legal action, but it's the first step in a layered defense so-to-speak. Call them a necessary evil!  LOL
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Fri Mar 07, 2014 1:28 am

Oh right. Totally agree with you on raising the age. I myself don't want to play with kids either - if I want that there are other games I can go to.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Fri Mar 07, 2014 6:57 am

The one benefit of having a lower age limit is it helps grow the sport in general.  That being said you wouldn't want to open yourself up to any kind of legal risk. I remember some of the paintball fields allowing 13+ if the parent signs a waiver, this does seem a bit young for letting them run around just like everyone else. The other option is doing 13+ with parent accompaniment on the field and 16+ with parent signed waiver.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:56 am

No fps limit for aeg/gbb/dmr and no MED (until 10-20ft then transition to side arm).  MED should be out of respect.  Just make it clear before beginning a game.  bolt actions should have a MED, but they'll be followed anyways because no one would be insane enough to go CQB with a bolt action.  Full auto whenever the hell you want except for indoors or really tight in.

I think to really help this grow and not hinder everyone, we should have a set of general guidelines not rules.  If we have general guidelines then you teach newer players about integrity and honesty.  If someone comes into a game purposely to be a dick, everyone will know and they won't be welcome back anyways.  I know this leaves a lot of grey area but if we're all mature about it I don't see any real problems aside from the one asshole that shows up.

Let people do what they want within reason. it really opens up the sport and is easier for newer players to enjoy the game instead of worrying about breaking a rule accidentally
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:19 pm

In regards to avoiding the new player concerns, that's what I'm here for essentially, if they play and are safe then they can move on up to club play, the rental fleet is designed to give an intro it's not something you guys will have too many issues with cause we are here to have fun, if you guys want to play against the renter army you can join drop ins but those that don't want to can play with the experienced regular players and leave them to me. Of course once in a while the renter army is fun to try and defeat.
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PostSubject: Re: For your consideration: suggestions on a Rulebook   Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:54 am

here are my thoughts after getting back from operation lioncalws 2014. the FPS limit for full-auto is 420/w .2g(NO EXCEPTIONS) no MED. If you go into a building its semi-only and you can only go full-auto if your muzzle is sticking outside of the building no exceptions. There is also NO DMR class. there sniper FPS limit is stupidly high at 620 FPS with a .2g but a 100 ft med(but theres only one per side), but AEGs can be used as a "SNIPER" if it is incapable of going full-auto unless it is completely disassembled, and no HPA snipers.

i personally like the 420 fps with no med. it gets rid of a lot of the complaints and issues with the rules.
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